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Wreck Commissioners' Court.

SCOTTISH HALL,
BUCKINGHAM GATE,
Friday, 3rd May, 1912.

PROCEEDINGS

THE RIGHT HON. LORD MERSEY,
Wreck Commissioner of the United Kingdom,
WITH
REAR ADMIRAL THE HON. S. A. GOUGH-CALTHORPE, C.V.O., R.N.,
CAPTAIN A. W. CLARKE,
COMMANDER F. C. A. LYON, R.N.R.,
PROFESSOR J. H. BILES, LL.D., D.Sc.,
MR. E. C. CHASTON, R.N.R.
Acting as Assessors.

ON A FORMAL INVESTIGATION

ORDERED BY THE BOARD OF TRADE INTO THE

LOSS OF THE S. S. "TITANIC."

SECOND DAY.

The RIGHT HON. Sir RUFUS ISAACS, K.C., M.P. (Attorney General), THE RIGHT HON. Sir J. SIMON, K.C., M.P. (Solicitor-General), Mr. BUTLER ASPINALL, K.C., Mr. S. A. T. ROWLATT and Mr. RAYMOND ASQUITH (instructed by Sir R. ELLIS CUNLIFFE, Solicitor to the Board of Trade) appeared as Counsel on behalf of the Board of Trade.

THE RIGHT HON. Sir ROBERT FINLAY, K.C., M.P., Mr. F. LAING, K.C., Mr. MAURICE HILL, K.C., and Mr. NORMAN RAEBURN (instructed by Messrs. Hill, Dickinson and Co.) appeared as Counsel on behalf of the White Star Line.

Mr. THOMAS SCANLAN, M.P. (instructed by Mr. Smith, Solicitor) appeared as Counsel on behalf of the National Sailors' and Firemen's Union of Great Britain and Ireland, and of the personal representatives of several deceased members of the crew and of survivors who were members of the Union. (Admitted on application.)

Mr. BOTTERELL (instructed by Messrs. Botterell and Roche) appeared on behalf of the Chamber of Shipping of the United Kingdom. (Admitted on application.)

Mr. THOMAS LEWIS appeared on behalf of the British Seafarers' Union. (Admitted on Application.)

Mr. L. S. HOLMES (of Messrs. Miller, Taylor and Holmes, of Liverpool) appeared n behalf of the Imperial Merchant Service Guild. (Admitted on application.)

Mr. HAMAR GREENWOOD. M.P. (instructed by Messrs. Pritchard and Sons) watched proceedings on behalf of the Allan Line Steamship Company.

Mr. HAMAR GREENWOOD, M.P. (instructed by Messrs. William A. Crump and Son) watched proceedings for the Canadian Pacific Railway Company.

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The Commissioner: Is Mr. Scanlan here?

Mr. Scanlan: Yes, my Lord.

The Commissioner: Mr. Scanlan, can you tell me how many men there were on board this vessel who belonged to what is called the British Seafarers' Union?

Mr. Scanlan: That I cannot tell your Lordship. The Seafarers' Union is a distinct body from the Union I represent.

The Commissioner: I understand now (I did not know it yesterday) that it is an offshoot from your body. Can you tell me how many of your body were on the "Titanic"?

Mr. Scanlan: Well, my Lord, our information is not quite accurate as yet on that point, because the officials of the Union have only just got the Ship's Articles, from which they are compiling a list. They have paid away quite a number of claims to widows of the deceased - somewhere over 30, I understand.

The Commissioner: How many men do you suppose there were on board the "Titanic" belonging to your Union?

Mr. Scanlan: I understand the number is less than 100.

The Commissioner: Have you any idea how many men there were on board belonging to the new organisation, the offshoot - the British Seafarers' Union?

Mr. Scanlan: We cannot say, my Lord.

The Commissioner: Have you any idea of the number?

Mr. Scanlan: The gentleman who represented that body yesterday, my Lord, stated that it was 200.

The Attorney-General: Sixty or 70 out of 200, I understood him to say.

The Commissioner: Can you communicate with him?

Mr. Thomas Lewis: I am here, my Lord.

The Commissioner: Can you tell me how many men belonging to your Union were on board the steamer?

Mr. Thomas Lewis: There was a communication from the Chairman - I am not aware whether your Lordship has received it or not - to this effect -

The Commissioner: About the number is enough for me.

Mr. Thomas Lewis: The number is 228 on board the "Titanic," and the corrected figure of those saved, 77 out of the total number of 228 on board.

The Commissioner: How long has the Seafarers' Union been in existence?

Mr. Thomas Lewis: Since October 6th of last year.

The Commissioner: Then it has been in existence about six months?

Mr. Thomas Lewis: Six or seven months, my Lord.

The Commissioner: Is it more closely connected with Southampton than the other Union?

Mr. Thomas Lewis: It is all Southampton men, my Lord; it is at present a Southampton Union. It is called the British Seafarers' Union, but its headquarters are at Southampton, and the bulk of its members reside at Southampton, and it has a membership of about 4,000. Practically the whole of the seafarers of the "Titanic" are members of our Union.

The Commissioner: I personally had never heard of this Union, but I have heard for many years past of the Seamen and Firemen's Union I think, Mr. Attorney, in these circumstances it would be more satisfactory if the Seafarer's Union was also represented.

The Attorney-General: My Lord, I quite accept it.

Mr. L. S. Holmes: My Lord, might I renew my application as to the whole of the officers and the deceased officers who were members of the Union? The whole of the officers were members; they belonged to the Imperial Merchant Service Guild.

The Commissioner: I think they ought to be represented.

Mr. W. H. Champness: With your Lordship's permission I desire to renew my application to represent a deceased passenger. With great respect I submit that the interest of the passengers is the most vital interest that can be affected by this Inquiry, and that interest can only be represented by someone who appears on behalf of one or two of the deceased. There is no association of passengers, and I submit that that is an interest which should be before your Lordship. I do not desire unduly to prolong the Inquiry - possibly I may not call evidence - but I do desire to have an opportunity to ask questions of the Witnesses.

The Commissioner: I shall see about that later on. I do not accede to the application of a single person to be represented.

Mr. W. M. R. Pringle: May I be allowed to make an application on behalf of two members of the crew who were assigned to the ship in respect of the trades which I represent; one was a ship's carpenter and the other a joiner, and I am appearing on behalf of the relatives of both the deceased?

The Commissioner: There is no objection to your remaining here and listening, but I cannot at present allow you to interfere.

Mr. W. M. R. Pringle: May I be allowed to put questions with your Lordship's permission?

The Commissioner: Well, that depends upon the question and upon the circumstances of the case. Those circumstances have not arisen yet.

The Attorney-General: If your Lordship pleases, in the statement of the case which I shall now make to your Lordship, of course you will understand, as I indicated yesterday, that our information, that is to say, such information as I can act upon in opening the case to your Lordship, is founded at present upon very slight material. I do not feel justified in referring to press statements which have appeared, or reports in the papers of statements made elsewhere until, at any rate, I know that I shall be in a position to call as Witnesses before your Lordship those who made the statements; and therefore, although it would be an affectation to pretend, certainly as far as I am concerned, and I have no doubt also with regard to your Lordship and those who are assisting you, that you did not know a good deal more than may be stated this morning, you will understand why it is that I am confining myself to basing my statement upon evidence which I know at present I shall be able to put before you. And I think it will be sufficient for the purpose, because all your Lordship will require is a short statement of the material facts and some indication of the particular points upon which we desire to lay stress.

Now, my Lord, the "Titanic" was constructed under survey in the usual way by the Board of Trade for a passenger certificate, and to comply with the American emigration laws. She was a triple-screw steamer, a British steamship built by Harland and Wolff, Limited, at Belfast, for service in the White Star Line between Southampton and New York. She was a vessel of gigantic dimensions, and her length (I am reading from the register, copies of which will be handed up both to your Lordship and to those who are associated with you) from the fore part of the stem under the bowsprit to the aft side of the head of the stern post (that is the system of measurement) was 852 feet. I need not trouble about the decimal. Her main breadth, that is measured to the outside of the plating, was 92 feet. The depth of the vessel from the top of the deck at side amidships to the bottom of the keel was 65 feet. There are other measurements, but I think I have given your Lordship the material ones. Now, my Lord, she had one turbine, and two sets of 4-cylinder triple expansion reciprocating engines, with a nominal horse-power of 6,906. The two reciprocating engines drove the wing propellers, and the turbine drove the centre. That I think is sufficient for the present purpose with regard to the engines. The horse-power was sufficient to give a speed of at least 21 knots. She was registered at Liverpool with a gross tonnage of 46,328 tons. Her registered tonnage was 21,831 tons.

Your Lordship will see from the plan (and I only propose to state quite simply the points with reference to the plan) that she had five decks amidships

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- it is rather important to bear in mind the number of decks fore and aft and amidships - seven decks in the No 1 hold, and six decks in the other holds. Apparently there was a lower Orlop deck in the No 1 hold, and that is what made the seven. She had a promenade deck. Your Lordship notices there is the boat deck which is the top deck, then there is a promenade deck, and a bridge deck. The promenade deck was about 500 feet long. My Lord, I will say something a little later about the bulkheads, but that is sufficient for the moment to indicate the size of the vessel, and she had a passenger certificate of the Board of Trade to carry 3,547 persons.

The Commissioner: When you say "persons" you mean passengers?

The Attorney-General: I did not mean passengers when I said "persons," and your Lordship will see why I am subdividing them. The 3,547 persons includes passengers and crew - 905 first-class passengers, 564 second-class passengers, 1,134 third-class, and the complement of crew 944. She carried, as your Lordship may see from the model which is before you, a number of boats on her boat deck. Altogether she carried 14 lifeboats and two boats which were not lifeboats but wooden cutters, which were used as emergency boats or were swung out in case of anybody falling overboard or in case of any sudden emergency in the lowering of a boat. That made her total 16, and besides that she had four Englehardt collapsible boats, and, counting the collapsible boats, that gave her 20, with a carrying capacity according to cubic feet of 1,167 persons.

Mr. Laing: I think it is 1,178.

The Attorney-General: There is a very slight difference between us I know. According to the constructor's view there was a capacity for 1,178, but it is not very material; according to our view it is 1,167. Then besides that, my Lord, there were 3,560 lifebelts or other similar approved articles and 48 life buoys. Her draught forward, on leaving Southampton, was 33 feet 8 inches and 34 feet 4 inches aft.

This was the first voyage of the "Titanic," and, as your Lordship sees from the model, and I think the statement which I am reading from here, she was, if not exactly built on the same lines and principle as the "Olympic," her sister ship, substantially so. She left Queenstown on the 11th April on this first voyage bound for New York. She carried a total number of passengers of 1,316, and a total number of crew of 892. I cannot say that those figures which I have just given, and which make a total of 2,208, are agreed figures. There is a slight variation upon which I do not think for the purpose of this Inquiry we shall need to spend any time - I think my friend's figures make it 2,206, but we need not trouble about that. My Lord, before I proceed to describe the voyage I want to indicate sufficiently, for the purpose of your Lordship bearing it in mind, that this vessel had, I think I am right in saying, fifteen bulkheads.

Mr. Laing: Yes, that is right.

The Attorney-General: Fifteen watertight bulkheads with a number of watertight doors. My Lord, I have no doubt it will be necessary, during the course of the case, to go more fully into the design of these watertight doors and also for the purpose of ascertaining how many compartments there could be divided up with these doors closed. I understand, but I do not for a moment profess to say more than that it is what I understand at the present moment with regard to this vessel, that she was designed and constructed on the principle that she would remain afloat in the event of any two adjoining compartments being flooded. That I understand to be the scheme of the design of this vessel with regard to the bulkheads and the watertight doors. She was so built and strengthened that in the event of any two of the adjoining compartments being flooded, the vessel nevertheless would float, and assuming that two of the adjoining compartments were flooded that there would still be a free-board of some 2 feet 6 inches to 3 feet in the bulkhead. That is the design of construction; that is, to put it in another way, that the bulkhead would in the event of two of the compartments being flooded extend to 2½ to 3 feet above the waterline - that she would then float and the top of her bulkhead would be 2½ to 3 feet above the waterline. Therefore the result would be, according at any rate to the design of this vessel, supposing that she had come into collision either with another vessel, or even with an iceberg or any other obstacle, that so long as not more than two of her adjoining compartments were flooded she would float in perfect safety, particularly if you assume, as we do here, a calm sea. That is the position, and I understand that is the design upon which she was built. Your Lordship, of course, will hear a good deal more about this. We shall call those who were responsible for her construction. I am not quite sure for the moment, and therefore I will not go into it, how many watertight sliding doors there were. Obviously there must have been a considerable number, because there would have to be a passage in the ordinary course through the bulkheads; but it is a considerable number, and your Lordship will hear what the number was later. The watertight doors as I understand are closed some by gravity and some by gear, and we will have to go into that in greater detail later.

Now, my Lord, I come back to the commencement of her voyage from Queenstown on the 11th April. All went well. It was a quiet and successful voyage up to the casualty, which I am going to refer to directly. The weather was very fine all the way, the sea calm, and the wind west-south-west during the whole voyage. The temperature was rather cold, particularly on the 14th April, which is the date of the casualty, which took place, as your Lordship knows, between eleven o'clock and midnight of the 14th. So far as one is able to fix it (it is not possible, I think, to fix it with precision, at any rate with the material before me at present), it must have been about 11.40 that the casualty happened, at night. It was a starry night on the night of the 14th, the atmosphere was clear - some Witnesses say particularly clear. There was no moon, and the vessel, at any rate beyond all question up to the point of time to which the examination now before your Lordship relates, that is the casualty, was proceeding at the speed of 21 knots. So far as I am able to gather from the evidence, that speed was never reduced, and she continued travelling at that speed during the whole of the 14th April, right up till the time of the collision with the iceberg, and, according to the evidence which we shall place before your Lordship, notwithstanding warnings that there were icebergs in the neighbourhood and that in the track in which she was proceeding she would meet them or would be likely to meet them. My Lord, at the present moment we are able to bring before the Court evidence of two vessels, one the "Caronia" and the other the "Baltic," which by means of wireless telegraphy informed the "Titanic" during that day that icebergs, growlers, and field ice were reported in the track along which the "Titanic" was proceeding. I think, my Lord, that the distinction, so far as I follow it, between a berg and a growler is that a growler is an iceberg, with but very little protruding above the water. Now, my Lord, in that connection I think it would be useful if your Lordship would just look at the North Atlantic Route Chart for the purpose of following the track which is marked for vessels between Queenstown and New York. I have marked the place on my chart, which I am going to hand up to your Lordship, where we say the collision occurred, but I just want my learned friend to see it.

(The chart was handed up to his Lordship.)

The Attorney-General: Now does your Lordship see the blue cross which I have made - it is on the left half of the chart?

The Commissioner: Yes.

The Attorney-General: According to our view, and according to the evidence, as far as we know it at present, when she struck ice she was in or near latitude 41º 46' North, and longitude 50° 15' West. The spot I have marked with a cross I have shown to my learned friend, Mr. Laing, and he agrees that

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it correctly indicates the spot according to that latitude and longitude. Now, if your Lordship will look at that chart for a moment you will find New York on the extreme left, and if you follow the line indicated to the blue cross from the extreme left the course from the blue cross to New York is what she still had to do to complete the voyage. And if your Lordship will look a little way to the right you will see a curve, which follows right up to Ireland, and that is marked "Mail steamers outward, 15th January to 14th August." There are homeward tracks and outward tracks. There are tracks for the steamers outward, from the 15th August to the 14th January, and more southerly tracks for the mail steamers outward from the 15th January to the 14th August, and also for homeward voyages. The only point for the moment to which I desire to direct your Lordship's attention, as I think the Court will probably consider these tracks during the course of this investigation, is to indicate that there are these more southerly tracks for the vessels in this period from the 15th January to the 14th August - obviously and undoubtedly, I think, because it is thought necessary on account of ice to make a more southerly track during that period.

The Commissioner: Give me the tracks again. I have got the point marked by the blue cross.

The Attorney-General: Now will your Lordship follow along a little way to the right from the blue cross, and there you have the beginning. You see there the point at which two tracks converge.

The Commissioner: From Queenstown.

The Attorney-General: Yes, one of them is from Queenstown, or from Ireland at any rate, and if you follow right along the higher of the two, you will find a few inches to the right, under the more northerly of these two tracks, the words "Mail Steamers outward, 15th January to 14th August."

The Commissioner: That is not the dotted line at all.

The Attorney-General: No my Lord, the dotted line is the homeward track; we have nothing to do with that. That is the indicated track for these mail steamers during this period of January to August, and along which, as I understand, the "Titanic" travelled. Your Lordship sees that when she gets to a certain point, the converging point of these two curves, she then proceeds in almost a straight line along the track to New York, past the cross which I have indicated. So that your Lordship will see, as far as I follow it, she was substantially travelling along the track which is marked for her for this time of year upon this chart. If your Lordship will look just a little above the spot with the blue cross you will see there, "Field ice between March and July," which is indicated upon the chart, and a little above that the great bank of Newfoundland. We may have to refer to the chart later, but for the moment I wanted your Lordship to appreciate that because of the evidence of the "Caronia."

The Commissioner: Where I see the words on the chart, "Icebergs, field ice," I suppose that means to the north of the line?

The Attorney-General: I understand so - that is, that the field of ice and icebergs have got so far south.

The Commissioner: This chart says, "Field ice between March and July."

The Attorney-General: Yes; that is to the northward of the striking point.

The Commissioner: But then further south there are these words, "Icebergs have been seen within this line." That means north of this line?

The Attorney-General: Yes, and there is another which your Lordship might note, as you have observed that, which follows immediately underneath it, "Icebergs have been seen within this line in April, May, and June."

The Commissioner: I saw that. That is a line to the southward again.

The Attorney-General: Yes, and it continues to the eastward of the indicated line of field ice. Now, I told your Lordship that these two vessels in any event, from the material now before us, gave this notice. My Lord, as it is, in our view, of importance to remember that notice was given and received by the "Titanic" during the day of the 14th that there were icebergs within this latitude and longitude, I call further attention to this, that in the case of the "Caronia" the notice was given in the morning.

The Commissioner: The morning of the 14th.

The Attorney-General: The morning of Sunday, the 14th of April. At nine in the morning the message was sent to the "Titanic," and at 9.44 of that same morning the "Titanic" acknowledged the message. I gave your Lordship the substance of the message, and it was that these bergs, growlers, and field ice were reported in 42° N., from 49° to 51° W. That was the message which the "Titanic" acknowledged.

The Commissioner: I think you have other copies of this chart.

The Attorney-General: Yes, I will hand them up. I am sorry we did not have them before. Certainly, I quite agree that it is very important that the gentlemen who are with your Lordship should have them. I handed you up my own, my Lord.

The Commissioner: I should like something to be marked on my chart at all events to show these icebergs.

The Attorney-General: Certainly, my Lord.

The Commissioner: What I should like, Mr. Attorney is - perhaps Mr. Aspinall will do it for me - to have the points indicated on my chart which correspond with the information given by the "Caronia" as to the position of the ice. I do not know, Mr. Aspinall, whether you could mark it with a red pencil.

The Attorney-General: We could do that if your Lordship will hand the chart down to us.

Mr. Aspinall: I do not know, my Lord, if I might make this suggestion - that on of the Assessors, Captain Clarke, would do it with much greater accuracy than we could.

The Commissioner: Very well, I will ask Captain Clarke to do it for me.

The Attorney-General: If your Lordship will just pursue the line for about an inch to the right of the blue cross, that is the exact spot as I make it.

The Commissioner: It is no use my going along unless I have got it accurately in my mind.

The Attorney-General: I think that is right, my Lord.

The Commissioner: I daresay, but I want to see it on the chart, and I want to know also whereabout the "Titanic" would be on her course at 9.44 in the morning of the 14th.

The Attorney-General: Yes, that, of course we do not know, we shall have to form an opinion from calculation.

The Commissioner: She was steaming 21 knots an hour you say, and you can put her back to 9.44 in the morning and ascertain where she was then, so that I may see what her relative positions were with the ice that was indicated. When you talk about 9.44 in the morning you are taking that time I suppose from the "Caronia"?

The Attorney-General: Yes.

The Commissioner: Does that mean the "Caronia's" mean time, or what is it?

The Attorney-General: I am not quite sure what it means. It may mean, of course her time, I do not know. I rather gathered it was, but I will not be sure; but I know in the "Baltic," which is the other vessel, that is given as New York time. So that we shall have to ascertain that as we proceed, I do not know myself; I have made a note to ask the same question.

The Commissioner: I do not know if it is of very serious consequence.

The Attorney-General: No, I do not think it is, because, put it at what time you like, it is a considerable time before the casualty.

The Commissioner: Yes, it is more than twelve hours before the casualty.

The Attorney-General: Yes it would make a difference. The "Baltic" (I have given you the "Caronia" and I am dealing now with documents so that I can be precise) passed on reports of ice by wireless telegraphy to the "Titanic" from 49° 9' W., to 50° 20' W.

The Commissioner: When did she pass on those reports?

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The Attorney-General: They were passed on and acknowledged by the "Titanic" at 1 p.m. New York time on the same day.

The Commissioner: At 1 p.m.?

The Attorney-General: Yes, quite roughly, I think it would work out to about 3 p.m. by the "Titanic."

The Commissioner: About 3 p.m. by the "Titanic's" time?

The Attorney-General: Yes, that is it, and my Lord, while I am upon that, having given your Lordship 49° 9' W., longitude to 50° 20' W., I ought to have added "on the outward southern track." That was the message. That is the track to which I called your attention.

The Commissioner: I want to see if I have got the "Baltic's" figures right - 49° 9' N., 50° 20' W.?

The Attorney-General: Yes.

The Commissioner: I notice that the ice was between those points?

The Attorney-General: Yes on the outward southern track. Now if your Lordship would look just below the blue cross marked there, you will see the outward southern track is that line which you see immediately underneath.

The Commissioner: What are the figures again for the "Baltic"?

The Attorney-General: The only figures I have given you are longitude -

The Commissioner: For the "Baltic" I want them.

The Attorney-General: 49º 9' W to 50º 20' W longitude on the outward southern track.

The Commissioner: Where was the "Titanic" at the time that she received the "Caronia's" message, and where was she at the time that she received the "Baltic's" message?

The Attorney-General: All we can give your Lordship with reference to that is the distance that she must have travelled and for that you must have the times.

The Commissioner: Yes, you can form an idea, by the speed she was making, where she would be at the time that she received these two messages; and I want that.

The Attorney-General: Yes.

The Commissioner: Mr. Attorney, am I right in supposing that she ran right into the locality where the ice was after the warning that the ice was there?

The Attorney-General: Yes.

The Commissioner: That is what it comes to.

The Attorney-General: Yes, that is the point, and if you work it out with the chart, as we have been doing, it follows that she did that; because taking the point at which she struck the iceberg, and the indication to her by the "Baltic," you will observe that will work out the position which I have just told your Lordship, immediately below the spot of the collision, actually on the southern track.

The Commissioner: Mr. Laing, do you agree about this?

Mr. Laing: No, my Lord, I cannot agree without seeing my figures of the exact spot. We are not quite certain of the exact spot, at the moment, of the collision.

The Commissioner: It is not a question of the exact spot. According to the indication made for me by my colleagues upon this chart, if, that is to say, the figures given to me by the Attorney-General are right, it looks as if she, having had warning, made for the ice.

Mr. Laing: Well, my Lord, we are not quite satisfied about the exact place of collision; we think there may be a substantial difference.

The Commissioner: Very well, if you say so, I will wait.

Mr. Laing: Yes, we think there may be, but at present we are not certain about it.

The Commissioner: Very well.

The Attorney-General: I quite appreciate what my learned friend says. I am sure my learned friend will agree with the way in which I put the blue cross. If the figures we have given are correct the spot indicated in the chart is correct, and if the figures we have given of the "Baltic" just now are correct what your Lordship said is also correct. My Lord, I cannot think that there can be any question between us as to the spot at which she struck the iceberg, because her own wireless messages to the "Baltic" asking for assistance were from 41° 46' N., and 50° 14' W., which is practically the spot. Her message was "Sinking; want immediate assistance." Of course, that is out of its order in the story, but I only wanted to tell your Lordship that to show there cannot be any question between us as to the spot at which we say she struck?

The Commissioner: Now that you say comes to the blue spot?

The Attorney-General: Yes. I have now in my hands the "Caronia's" receipt of the message from the "Titanic" - what I gave just now was the "Baltic." This is the "Caronia": "Titanic requires immediate assistance. Been in collision with iceberg. Position: latitude 41° 46' N., longitude 50° 14' W."

The Commissioner: You told me 15.

The Attorney-General: Yes, I did - that is the spot that has been indicated at the same time. It is a difference of a mile; it is the same thing. Now, my Lord, according to the evidence which we shall call before you, after the receipt of these warnings, so far as we know, no reduction of the speed of 21 knots was made, and she traveled on during the afternoon, and when it became dark on this starry night, with no moon, she was going at a speed of 21 knots when she struck the iceberg. Of course that is a factor the importance of which your Lordship will appreciate, and which I desire to indicate at the earliest moment, so that any explanation that may be available should be given to your Lordship, and also, if there is any denial of the fact, that my friend may have notice that that is a point which I place before the Court as one of extreme importance as affecting this Inquiry.

Now, my Lord, the story of what happened immediately before the "Titanic" struck the iceberg is certainly somewhat difficult to give, and I do not propose to be in any way precise about it. I cannot be from the material we have at present, and your Lordship will have to hear the evidence upon it. What I have given now, and the evidence upon which I comment, is evidence which rests really upon documents, except as to speed, upon which we will call evidence which will, I think, place the matter beyond question as far as I understand what has taken place. Now, my Lord, there is also some further evidence. Undoubtedly during that day, Sunday, the 14th April, the temperature was extremely cold. It had been cold during the voyage; it became colder much on this 14th, and as they proceeded on their way till before the happening of the casualty the cold increased. My submission to the Court is that that would be an indication to those responsible for the navigation of the "Titanic."

The Commissioner: Are you talking of the temperature of the air or of the water?

The Attorney-General: I am talking of both, my Lord. The cold increased very considerably, and was an indication to those who were responsible for the navigation and were accustomed to the voyages that they were in very close proximity to ice. That is my submission, that this increasing cold, and particularly of the water, was an indication to them of this proximity, more especially when taken in conjunction with the fact that the "Titanic" was then approaching the zone in respect of which she had received the warnings that there were growlers, icebergs, and fields of ice. My Lord, a little before she struck (I cannot give at present more indication than that) the man on the look-out in the crow's-nest sounded three bells. My Lord, the signal of three bells we understand to be something ahead. The practice apparently is to sound this signal and then to telephone from the crow's-nest, I imagine to the bridge, but I am going to leave the matter with that indication, because I am not able to speak precisely enough of what happened at that moment; we will wait till the evidence is a little more sifted. Then at that point Mr. Murdoch, who was the Chief Officer of the vessel and was in charge, was on the bridge.

The Commissioner: Mr. Attorney, when you say the Chief Officer, I want to know whether you mean the First Officer?

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The Attorney-General: I was just asking about that, my Lord. I thought he was the Chief Officer, but I am told he was the First Officer. There has been some confusion about it, but I understand he was the First Officer.

My Lord, Captain Smith, who was the Captain of the "Titanic," was, at the actual time of striking, below, not on the bridge; he had gone down to his berth. He was a very experienced Captain in the employment of the White Star Line, and had, in fact, been in charge of the "Olympic" right up to the time of the "Titanic's" first voyage. He took charge of the "Titanic" because, as one would gather, the White Star Line had complete confidence in his skill and judgment. He had been many years in their employment and in charge of vessels belonging to the White Star Line; and I believe I am right in saying that, except for the occurrence between the "Hawke and the "Olympic," there had never been any collision in any vessel which he had commanded; and, as your Lordship knows, the matter of the "Olympic" and "Hawke" is now still sub judice in the Court of Appeal - litigation has resulted.

The Commissioner: What was the judgment?

The Attorney-General: The judgment was that owners were excused - were not liable, on account of compulsory pilotage, but that the "Hawke" was not to blame; the "Olympic" was. That is the judgment.

Mr. Laing: No fault was found with the Master.

The Commissioner: The "Olympic" was in charge of a pilot?

The Attorney-General: Yes, my Lord; not in charge of Captain Smith, but of a pilot. That matter is still the subject of litigation. That is how it stands at the present moment.

The Commissioner: Was there any blame imputed by the judgment to Captain Smith?

The Attorney-General: Not by the judgment, my Lord.

Now my Lord, after this report of the three bells signal, which was given by the look-out man, it is very difficult to know whether anything was done immediately before the casualty. I confess that I am not able to make out, from the evidence that I have got at present, that anything at all was done, nor am I able to state to the Court how long an interval elapsed between the signal and the striking of the "Titanic" on the berg. We must leave it. I cannot attempt to say with any great precision what happened.

The Commissioner: Can you tell me, Mr. Attorney, how many of the men in charge would be apprised of these messages in the ordinary course of things?

The Attorney-General: Well, two officers, I think, would know. I cannot say more. Your Lordship sees, of course, that everybody no doubt is in this difficulty, that the persons chiefly concerned have succumbed in this disaster, and we have got to pick up, as best we can from those who survived, what happened; and, of course, from those who survived, as your Lordship will appreciate, we have not yet got statements.

The Commissioner: What I was asking was this - perhaps I ought to ask Mr. Laing - what in the ordinary course would be done with these messages? Would they be communicated to the officers of the ship, and, if so, to how many of them?

Mr. Laing: I am sorry I cannot answer, my Lord - certainly to the Captain.

The Commissioner: Of course, and I presume Murdoch would have received them. They would have been communicated to him.

Mr. Laing: I should imagine so, but at present I do not know.

The Commissioner: You do not know what the practice is?

Mr. Laing: I will try and find out, my Lord.

The Attorney-General: I have no doubt he would have received them, because, according to some of the evidence which we have even at present, it will be shown that the look-out man had special instructions to look out for ice; but, so far as I know on the evidence, nothing further was done by the "Titanic" after receipt of the warnings than to give this notice to the look-out man to keep a special eye open for ice.

The Commissioner: Is the look-out man alive?

The Attorney-General: We are going to call one, my Lord.

The Commissioner: Is this man you speak about, who rang the three bells, alive?

The Attorney-General: I am not sure that he is, my Lord. We shall find out, of course, as we proceed, but he is not one of those who came home in the "Lapland." We have someone who heard it, but not the man who actually rang it.

Now, my Lord, the shock, so far as one knows from the evidence, taking it generally, does not appear to have been a severe one; that is, according to the accounts of the survivors. I am not saying there are not some who take a different view; but (I am only dealing with the evidence so far as I am able to at present), speaking generally, it does not appear to have been as severe perhaps as one would have imagined. However, your Lordship will hear all about that. Apparently, part of the starboard side of the vessel below the waterline was struck, and possibly also (although this is to a certain extent speculation or deduction from what happened afterwards) part of the bottom of the vessel was ripped up. Now, almost immediately after this had happened, water was observed to be pouring into the fore hatch.

My Lord, I see there is a reference in a newspaper report, and I am right in saying that the man who struck the three bells is alive, although we have not got a proof from him yet; he is in America.

Now, my Lord, from this moment again it is very difficult to ascertain what actually happened between the striking (which I place at 11.40 on the 14th April) and about two o'clock on the 15th in the morning when she sank. According to one of our Witnesses, who will be called before you, at a very early stage, the carpenter went to ascertain what water she was making, and he reported that she had made seven feet of water within a very few minutes; in the fore part - exactly in what part I cannot say -

The Commissioner: Is the carpenter alive?

The Attorney-General: No, my Lord, a number of Witnesses state that pieces of ice were observed immediately after she struck on the fore-well deck.

The Commissioner: Is anyone able to indicate with the pointer where the fore-well deck is?

The Attorney-General: Yes, my Lord. It is just abaft the foremast; it is easily seen. Now, my Lord, I am not sure that I have stated yet that almost immediately after she struck, Captain Smith came on the bridge - which is reconstituting, as best we can from the evidence, what happened - and I gather, from the orders that were given by him very shortly after he came on to the bridge, that he must have realised that the matter was serious; but, according to the information which we have got from the survivors, at any rate at present, there does not appear to have been any panic on board the vessel. Orders, generally speaking, were carried out in an orderly and a regular fashion. The men were told to go to their stations in their boats. I understand that each man had his station in the boat, and that there was a list, or there were lists in the boats, indicating the stations which the men were to take in the boats if the orders came, so that when an order came for men to go to their stations in the boats it was not necessary to tell him to what particular place he should go or what particular boat. The boats were numbered, and a man would know he had to go to boat No. 12 and take a certain place there. I cannot say from the evidence which will be called before your Lordship that the men seemed to know very well what their places in the boats were, notwithstanding these precautions which had been taken by the owners and the Captain, but still there appears to have been very little confusion. Orders were given for the boats to be lowered - to be got ready first; and also orders were given that the women and children were to come first; and orders were also given; the men were all called up - those who were not on watch and had gone below were called up, as well as the passengers - and all were told to take lifebelts and put them on. Now I am not going at the present moment, particularly as it is not necessary, into further detail as to what happened at that time, because it is very difficult to say. I gather from the evidence (I mean now, of course, from the evidence which I know I can call before you) that the women and children were placed in the boats; that all the boats were lowered; that is the 16; the 14 lifeboats and the two wooden cutters; and that also the four collapsible boats were either were put into the sea or attempts were made to launch them. I am not sure what happened with regard to the four.

Page 15

The Commissioner: There were sixteen wooden boats?

The Attorney-General: Yes, my Lord, and four collapsible boats. Of the 16, as your Lordship knows, 14 were lifeboats, but it seems clear from the evidence that the boats did not carry the full complement they were capable of carrying. With regard to the boats, undoubtedly although it may be that one or two carried as many as they possibly could, yet, speaking generally, they do not seem to have taken as many women and children or persons on board as could have been taken. There is some evidence undoubtedly that some wives refused to leave, declining to go without their husbands. There is also considerable evidence of husbands insisting upon their wives and children going in accordance with the orders that were given.

Now the boats were ordered to remain in the neighbourhood of the vessel, and did apparently for some time. Here, again, perhaps it is not remarkable, but it is impossible to get anything like a reliable estimate of time from those who survived, but there they were, in the boats, at distances, so far as I am able to judge, speaking generally, of 100 to 200 yards, in some cases more, from the "Titanic," standing by her, which they continued to do until just a little before, or at about, two o'clock in the morning, when undoubtedly she went down by the head. She began to go down by the head, and, according to some accounts, buckled, and then broke in two, and the fore part of the vessel went down into the water and the stern part stood right up for some time (that there is a great deal of evidence about), and eventually that disappeared too. According to some statements there was an explosion before she broke in two, several explosions some Witnesses say. According to others, she plunged head down into the water with her stern standing right up, and was in that position for some few minutes (it is impossible, of course, to gauge the time accurately), and then disappeared. Which is the correct version of those three statements, of course it is not possible to say, certainly at the present moment, but there is undoubtedly evidence that as she began to settle, apparently by the head, there came a moment at which there was a great rush aft, which seems to indicate it was quite clear that something was taking place in the fore part of the vessel, apart altogether from the sinking, which caused persons to rush to the afterpart of the vessel. That somewhat suggests that there had been some breaking of the vessel which caused them to make this rush; but it might be because it also became apparent that she was going down by the bow. Whatever the reason was, undoubtedly a large number of persons who were left on board the vessel rushed aft and remained there until the vessel went down.

The Commissioner: Is there any evidence as to the length of time between this rush aft and the final settlement of the afterpart of the ship?

The Attorney-General: No, my Lord, there is not. When I say no evidence, I mean nothing so far which is reliable.

The Commissioner: I suppose it would only be a question of a few minutes?

The Attorney-General: That is all, my Lord. According to one Witness, I think it was put at ten minutes; others say a few minutes, and no one knows better than your Lordship how unreliable estimates of time must be necessarily at moments such as those.

My Lord, there ends the melancholy and lamentable story of the "Titanic." The boats were subsequently picked up by the "Carpathia," which, in conjunction, or which alike with a number of other steamers, received wireless messages from the "Titanic" for assistance, and informing everybody who could receive wireless messages that she was sinking, and stating the position, latitude and longitude, which I gave to your Lordship a little while ago, in one of the messages sent to the "Caronia."

Now, my Lord, these wireless messages had been sent continually, not only to the vessels which I have indicated, but to a number of others, including, as I have just stated, the "Carpathia"; your Lordship will hear the account of those. I am not going to trouble you at the present moment by going into detail with regard to them.

My Lord, I think that one thing must emerge from this Inquiry, and that is that if it had not been for that marvel of science, wireless telegraphy, I doubt very much if anyone would have been picked up in these boats, or at least whether as many would have been saved as were actually saved. That is a matter your Lordship will consider when you hear all the evidence with regard to it.

Now, my Lord, I can give your Lordship figures which, I think, are of some importance. I am going to analyse the figures a little directly, because I do think that they are of considerable importance in the case, and that your Lordship should have them as far as we are able to give them. The total of passengers and crew on the vessel, if your Lordship will take them, were 2,206. The figures originally given were 2,208, but I will deal with them at 2,206. My Lord, there were 703 of the 2,206 saved, leaving 1,503 who succumbed in this disaster. Now, my Lord, of the 2,206 the percentage saved is 32, that is the 703 of the 2,206. I think it is useful to split up the 2,206 into men, women, and children. There were 1,662 men - I am dealing now with passengers and crew - carried in the vessel; there were 315 saved all told, which gives a percentage of 19. There were 439 women carried; 336 were saved.

The Commissioner: What percentage is that?

The Attorney-General: Giving a proportion of women saved of 77 percent. There were 105 children carried, of whom 52 were saved - 49 percent.

Now, my Lord, I propose to subdivide the figures again into passengers and crew, and the passengers into classes. There were altogether 322 first-class passengers, and if it would save your Lordship trouble we will have the table copied for the use of your Lordship and the Assessors, but the figures I am going to give you are not very many. I think your Lordship will find it useful to have them in this detached way. There were 322 first-class passengers; 173 men, 144 women, and five children. Of the 173 men, 58 were saved, giving a proportion of 34 percent. Of the 144 women carried 139 were saved, giving a proportion of 97 percent, of the women first-class passengers saved. Of the five children carried, five were saved, giving a proportion of 100 percent. In the second-class, there were 1,602 carried.

The Commissioner: What was the total number?

The Attorney-General: I beg your pardon, my Lord. I ought to have given that first, as I did in the other case; 277 were carried, 115 were saved, and the percentage was 42 percent.

The Commissioner: You are giving men, women, and children now?

The Attorney-General: Yes, the same as I did the others, my Lord.

The Commissioner: No, you did not give me the others.

The Attorney-General: I think so, my Lord. Yes, I began in the same way.

The Commissioner: Three hundred and twenty-two is the total?

The Attorney-General: Yes.

The Commissioner: Then you divided them into 173 men, 144 women, and five children; but although I can work it out, you did not tell me what was the total percentage of the first-class passengers saved.

Page 16

The Attorney-General: It was 34 percent.

The Commissioner: 34 percent of the men were saved.

The Attorney-General: Your Lordship means the percentage of the total.

The Commissioner: I thought you were going to give it in connection with the second-class.

The Attorney-General: Certainly. It is 63 percent, 322 carried, 202 saved, 63 percent. Then of the second-class the percentage saved is 42 percent, 277 carried, 115 saved, 42 percent., 160 men were carried, 13 were saved, making a percentage of eight percent; 93 women were carried, 78 were saved, the percentage was 84; 24 children carried, 24 saved, percentage 100.

Now, my Lord, of third-class passengers there were 709 carried, 176 saved, making a percentage of saved 25 percent. Of these 454 were men, of whom 55 were saved, giving a percentage of 12; 179 women were carried, 98 were saved, giving a percentage of 55; 76 children carried, 23 saved, percentage, 30. Taking the passengers, therefore, without the crew, there were 1,308 carried, 493 saved giving a percentage of 38. Now, my Lord, dealing with those in the same way, subdividing them: Of the 787 men carried, 126 were saved, giving a percentage of 16 percent. Of the 416 women carried, 315 were saved, percentage 76; of the 105 children carried, 52 were saved, giving a percentage of 49.

Now, my Lord, the only other figures are as to the crew, which are short. Eight hundred and ninety-eight were carried, 210 were saved, giving a percentage of 23. Of the 875 men carried 189 were saved, giving a percentage of 22. Of the 23 women carried, 21 were saved, with a proportion of 91 percent.

My Lord, the striking figures and figures which will no doubt engage the Court's attention during this Inquiry, are that 63 percent of the first-class passengers were saved, 42 percent of the second-class, and only 25 percent of the third-class.

The Commissioner: And 23 percent of the crew.

The Attorney-General: And 23 percent of the crew. My Lord, one striking figure to which I would direct your Lordship's attention also is this: that taking the figures I have given you of the first-class passengers, dealing with the women, and knowing as we do that some wives refused to go without their husbands, you will see that all except five were saved. If you assume that those five refused to leave their husbands the consequence is, that one must take it, that all the women in the first-class either were saved or had the opportunity of being saved and refused to avail themselves of it. One fact, my Lord, which does stand out in these series of figures which I have given to your Lordship is that of this very large number of men carried, of the passengers, only 126 were saved, giving the lowest percentage of any of the different classes to which I have referred. I mean taking the men of the first, second, and third-classes.

Now, my Lord, it may be necessary, and I daresay it will be later, during the course of the case, to analyse those figures even a little more closely; but I do not suppose that there will be any dispute with regard to them, and I thought it was important that your Lordship should have them at the outset.

Now my Lord, that really ends the story so far as I propose to trouble your Lordship and the Court with it in opening. The salient points which occurs to me at the moment (I am dealing with it only upon such material as we have at the moment), to which no doubt your Lordship's consideration will be directed - are first the speed of the vessel after the warning; secondly, that the number of boats was not sufficient for the number of persons carried; and thirdly, the construction of the watertight doors, and the effect of their action, will be another matter which will engage your attention during the course of the case. My Lord, dealing with the speed and the warning, there are the points which I have already sufficiently indicated, not only of the wireless telegrams, but of the temperature and also of the look-out. With regard to the boats, your Lordship will also hear what the rules and regulations are. I think I am right in saying this, that the "Titanic" carried sufficient boats to comply with the rules and regulations of the Board of Trade under the Merchant Shipping Acts, and no complaint is to be made against the "Titanic" that she in any way did not comply with those conditions. Whether they are sufficient, in view particularly of the experience which we have now had, and to what extent, and in what direction those rules and regulations should be amended is a matter which, as I indicated to your Lordship yesterday, will be for your Lordship's serious consideration.

The Commissioner: Have you, Mr. Attorney, obtained any figures as to the proportion of lifeboats carried by other lines?

The Attorney-General: We propose to do that, my Lord.

The Commissioner: By other lines I mean, of course, the German or French, or other lines. Do they carry a proportion of lifeboat accommodation in excess of that which was carried by the "Titanic."

The Attorney-General: We are inquiring into that matter, my Lord, and will produce evidence. I would rather not answer the question until I am in a position to state more definitely what the facts are. We are making the Inquiry which will give the answer to your Lordship's question. I am not, as I stated just now, in a position to answer it at present.

My Lord, the Board of Trade Rules are made under the Merchant Shipping Act, under Section 427. I need not trouble your Lordship with the Section. It is the one which gives power to make rules for providing life-saving appliances. In those rules there is a table which is at page 17 of the print if your Lordship happens to have it. If not I will hand it up in due time. It is sufficient if I state to your Lordship what the effect is. It is only one figure that you need to look at.

The Commissioner: I do not know whether I have it.

The Attorney-General: No, my Lord, you have not got it. It was proposed to deal with all these rules together, and, no doubt, that is the convenient form, but I thought your Lordship ought to have in the opening what undoubtedly is an important factor - what the Board of Trade Regulations are with regard to life-saving appliances. The only figure with which your Lordship need be troubled is this (it is at page 17): "The table referred to in the foregoing rules, showing the minimum number of boats to be placed under davits and their minimum cubic contents. When the gross tonnage is 10,000 and upwards, the minimum number of boats to be used under davits, 16."

The Commissioner: What was the tonnage of the "Titanic"?

The Attorney-General: She had a registered tonnage of 21,831 and a gross tonnage of 46,328.

The Commissioner: It does not matter what size over 10,000 tons a vessel may happen to be, 16 boats is the minimum number?

The Attorney-General: Yes, my Lord, that is how it stands.

Now, my Lord, I propose at once to call the evidence of those who, as I indicated yesterday have returned in the "Lapland," although they do not properly come perhaps in the order in which we might have wished to call them.

The Commissioner: What about tomorrow, Mr. Attorney.

The Attorney-General: Well, my Lord, there is some difficulty. We cannot finish this class of Witness, I think, and in any event we have got to get material ready. I think it would be better if your Lordship would say you would resume on Tuesday; then we shall be prepared to go on daily.

The Commissioner: You mean not to sit tomorrow?

The Attorney-General: Yes.

The Commissioner: One of my colleagues is very anxious to know, because he has other matters to attend to.

The Attorney-General: As far as I am concerned, I am ready to do anything.

Page 17

The Commissioner: Do you agree, Sir Robert, that we should not sit after this afternoon until Tuesday morning?

Sir Robert Finlay: I agree, my Lord.

The Commissioner: Very well, then, let it be so.

ARCHIE JEWELL, Sworn.

Examined by the SOLICITOR-GENERAL.

Is your name Archie Jewell? - Yes.
And were you one of the look-outs on the "Titanic"? - Yes, quite right.
On the "Titanic" did all the able seamen take their turns at the look-out or had you a special set of look-outs? - Yes, six special look-outs.
You were one of the six? - Yes.
Now on the night of that Sunday, the 14th April, which was your look-out - which was your watch? - From 8 to 10.
And where were you - were you in the crow's-nest or at the forecastle-head, or where? - In the crow's-nest on watch.
Was there a second look-out with you in the crow's-nest? - Yes, there were two, one at a time.
There were two of you together in the crow's-nest? - Yes.
Who was the man who was with you? - Symons. He is back in New York.
And he was saved too, was he? - Yes.
Then those are the two in the crow's-nest. Then are there two on the bridge? - No.
Are there two forward? - No, not in clear weather; we take two hours each.
Let us just get it clear. There was you and there was Symons in the crow's-nest. Were there no other look-out men on duty? - No, not so long as the weather was clear.
Then on this night, during your watch from 8 to 10, was the weather clear? - Yes.
Was there any moon? - No, I never see no moon.
Was it starry? - Yes.
Now do you remember when you were on your watch, from 8 to 10, any message coming to you about ice? - Yes, about 9.30.
What was the message? - To keep a sharp look-out for all ice, big and small.
How did the message come to you? - On the telephone; we have a telephone in the crow's-nest.
That was telephoned up to the crow's-nest, and where was the telephone from? - From the bridge.
Then it would be the officer on the bridge who would telephone to you? - Yes.
Do you happen to know who it was - which officer it was? - I could not say. I think the second officer was on watch at the time.
Up to that time, up to the time you got that message, had you seen any ice? - No.
And after you got that message until you went off duty, did you keep a sharp look-out? - Yes, and passed the word along.
And did you see any ice? - No.
(The Commissioner.) What do you mean by "passed the word along" - to keep a sharp look-out for ice? - To the other look-out.
How far does the other look-out stand from you? - They relieve me from the nest.
(The Solicitor-General.) The two of you were together in the crow's-nest, and you would be relieved at 10 o'clock? - Yes, that is right.
And when you were relieved at 10 o'clock did you hand on this message? - Yes.
Who were the look-out men who relieved you at 10 o'clock? - Fleet and Lee.
I think Fleet has given evidence in New York? - Yes.
So he was saved? - Yes; all the look-out men were saved.
And Lee was saved as well? - Yes.
Do you know whether Lee has given evidence in New York? - I do not know. He has been kept back.
(The Commissioner.) What age are you? - Twenty-three.
The Solicitor-General: There are six of them, my Lord, and we had better have the names of the other two.
The Commissioner: Yes.
(The Solicitor-General - To the Witness.) Just give us the names of the remaining two look-out men? - Hogg and Evans.
And do they always work in the same pairs? - Yes, always.
You and Symons, Hogg and Evans, and Fleet and Lee? - Yes.
Then you had relieved at 8 o'clock, had you, Hogg and Evans? - Yes.
And you in your turn were relieved at 10 o'clock by Fleet and Lee? - Yes.
And up to the time you went off duty, you had not seen any ice at all? - Not any.
Just tell us, supposing that something is seen ahead and you want to send the warning, how is it done from the crow's-nest? - Strike the bell three times.
And is that a bell hanging in the crow's-nest? - Yes, a big bell.
Then you can telephone from the crow's-nest to the bridge? - Yes.
And do the look-out men use the telephone to the bridge from time to time? - Yes.
Now, supposing that during your watch, the 8 to 10 watch, there had been any ice and you had seen it, what would you have done; would you ring the bell and then telephone? - Yes, to tell them what it was.
However, nothing of that sort happened while you were on duty? - Nothing at all.
(The Solicitor-General.) My Lord, we have picked out this Witness because he begins the story, but of course he can also speak to a few matters after the casualty, and perhaps it is as well to take them now. (To the Witness.) When you went off duty at 10 o'clock and went below, did you go to bed - turn in? - Yes, I went to bed.
And what was the next thing you knew? - The boatswain came below and called all hands on deck. I heard the crash first; that woke me up.
You were woke up were you by the crash? - Yes.
What did you do then? - Ran on deck to see what it was.
What did you see? - I saw some ice on the well deck on the starboard side.
You mean the forewell deck, I expect? - Yes.
Did others turn out at the same time with you? - Yes.
And saw it too? - Yes.
What did you do then? - Went down and put on some clothes. We all went below. They did not think there was any harm.
Do you mean you turned in again? - No, we did not turn in.
Then you spoke about the boatswain coming. How long after was that? - Not long. I cannot say exactly the time. He came and called all hands on deck. I could not tell you exactly the time; it was not long.
Then, when the boatswain came and called all hands on deck, did you go on deck with the others? - Yes, all hands went on the deck.
Had you got a station? - Yes, at my own boat.
Which was your boat? - Number 7.
(The Commissioner.) Were the engines revolving at this time?
(The Solicitor-General.) I will ask him, my Lord. We have evidence to show that they were not; that they were stopped at once. (To the Witness.) Did you notice whether the engines had stopped? - The ship was stopped when I looked over the side.
Now I was just going to ask you about your boat station. Which was your boat? - Number 7.
How do they number them on the "Titanic"; how do the numbers run? - Well, all odd numbers on the starboard side; even numbers on the port.

Page 18

And your boat was No. 7, you say? - Yes.
One on the starboard side? - Yes.
Then just take the odd numbers; do they run forward aft? - Yes.
The fourth boat on the starboard side. Now how did you know that that was your boat? - We had got a boat list right in front of our forecastle.
Had you taken part in any boat drill before the accident? - We always have a drill leaving port.
Then did you take part in one? - Yes, always.
(The Commissioner.) Where was that? - At Southampton.
(The Solicitor-General.) And had No. 7 been your boat at that drill? - No; there were only two boats lowered away.
(The Commissioner.) Only two boats lowered for that drill? - Yes.
And is that the practice? - Yes, it is the practice.
What I mean is, you have travelled on these liners before, I suppose? - Yes.
Is it the practice when you have your boat drill to have it with two boats only? - That is all I have seen.
That has been your experience? - Yes.
(The Solicitor-General.) You say only two boats would be lowered at the drill. What I want to know is whether your boat drill included everybody going to their boat stations? - Yes, all hands are on the boat deck.
Just one thing more about that. There are two boats, are there not, that are kept swung out as emergency boats? - Yes.
And the rest of the wooden boats, the lifeboats would be swung in - kept in? - Well, they are not swung quite really in; they are just on the edge of the rails.
How do you know whether it was the emergency boats that were swung out that were used for the practice on which boat it was? - Oh, no, it was the lifeboats.
Two of the lifeboats? - Yes.
Now we can see which your boat is - because the model shows us the starboard side? - Yes, this is the one (pointing to the model) - there was one on the other side here and a fourth one on the starboard side.
That would be No. 7? - Yes.
Then there are No. 5 and No. 3, and No. 1 is just behind the emergency boat, is it not? - No, that is No. 1 (pointing to the model).
(The Commissioner.) The emergency boat is No. 1.

(The Solicitor-General.) You say that when you were ordered up on deck and there was the muster, you went to No. 7? - Yes.
Just tell us what was done with boat No. 7? - We all cleared away the boats. The orders were for all hands to clear the boats, and we all went and cleared the boats. I helped to clear away No. 7, cleared away the falls, and got them all ready and the First Officer, Murdoch, told us to lower away the boats to the level of the rail.
That was Mr. Murdoch you say? - Yes, he was in charge of us.
And he gave the order to lower the boat to the level of the rail? - Yes.
And, of course, up to that time the boat would be empty? - Yes.
Then, when she was lowered down level with the rail, what were the orders then? - "Women and children in the boat."
Had any seamen been put into the boat? - Not then. We were all standing by that belonged to the boat.
(The Commissioner.) How many men man one of these boats? - There are two sailors told off for each boat, so many firemen, and so many stewards. I do not know how many firemen; I have never seen their list.
(The Solicitor-General.) Two seamen and a certain number of the firemen, and a certain number of the stewards? - Yes.
Did you count as one of the two seamen for this boat? - Yes.
Who was the other? - Weller.
You say Mr. Murdoch said "women and children first," and what was done? - Well, we put all the women in that was there, and children. Up to that time there was not many people; we could not get them up; they were rather afraid to go into the boat; they did not think there was anything wrong.
Were there men passengers there too? - Yes, we had some men passengers.
Did any of them get into your boat? - Yes. I do not know how many. There was three or four there. Three or four Frenchmen there - I do not know whether they got into the boat.
I only just want to know; did any men passengers get into No. 7? - Yes.
Three or four? - Yes.
Was there excitement? - No, Sir, none at all; very quiet.
And how many people got into No. 7 before she was lowered? - I could not say; it looked pretty full; there was not much room to work in her.
But you do not know the number? - No, I could not say the number at all.
You were one of the seamen told off for her. Did you get into her? - Yes, there were three seamen into that boat.
Where was the third? - I never see no fireman or no stewards up there at that time; it was about the first boat to be lowered.
Number seven was? - Yes.
And how is it done on a big liner like this: when you lower the boat from the rail down to the water, is it done from the boat or from the deck? - From the deck.
So that the people in the boat would not do the lowering away? - No, just keep the boat off the ship's side.
Did she get down to the water safely? - Yes.
Were there oars in the boat? - Yes.
A proper number? - Yes.
Was she provisioned? - I never saw any biscuits or nothing; I do not know whether there was any; I do not know that there was anybody looking for any.
Had she got any light? - No.
(The Commissioner.) Is a lifeboat usually provided with a light? - I think so, Sir; I do not know about every one.
And where is the light kept? - In the after-locker; the locker in the afterend of the boat.
Did anyone take it out and light it? - No; there was none there. We had a look to see if we could find a light, and there was none there.
Whose business was it to look after the light? - Well, I think the men in Southampton came on board ship to look after all that, to see that the boats were all looked after.
(The Solicitor-General.) Who was in charge of the boat? - Hogg.
That is the look-out man you spoke of, is it? - That is right.
There was Hogg and yourself and Weller? - Yes.
Were those the only three members of the crew in the boat? - That is all.
When you got down to the water, had you got any of these men passengers in them? - Yes.
They stayed in? - Yes.
You say you thought about four? - Well, I should say about that; I could not say the exact number.
Then the rest of them would be women and children? - Yes.
Were there any children? - We had one I think, that was all; the rest were women.
And you said, you did not know how many there were altogether, but I want to know was the boat full or not? - Well, she might have held a few more, Sir.
You say Mr. Murdoch was giving orders about lowering the boat; did he give orders to launch her down to the water? - To lower her right down to the water.
And what were the orders about - what was she to do? - He told us to stand by the gangway.
I do not quite know what you mean by that. What is the gangway you are referring to? - The doors that open in the ship's side. Just about here (Pointing to model) - the door is open continually.

Page 19

Amidships? - Yes.
Where the gangway would be if she were in port, I suppose? - Yes, that is right.
(The Commissioner.) Just go to the model again and show me whereabout on that model the waterline was, and where the gangway was, so that I may know where the boat was. - (Pointing to the model.) There is one door there, and there is the waterline right along here. There are several gangway doors in the side; there is one about there somewhere, and one about there.
The Solicitor-General: The actual line of the sea.
(The Commissioner.) You see the port holes, do not you? - Yes.
Now where was the waterline outside the vessel? - It was straight along here, I should say.
Now, where was this gangway you speak of? - There.
And you were told to remain in the water below that gangway? - Yes.
(The Solicitor-General.) Those were your orders. How far off from the ship did you keep? - We kept right alongside.
Was the sea smooth? - Yes, very smooth.
Just tell us what happened after that? - Well, we see all the other boats lowered away and pull away from the ship. Then we saw the ship settling away, and we had to pull away clear.
Let us just see if we can get clear about these other boats, if we can. Did you keep on the starboard side? - Yes.
You said, I think, that you thought your boat, No. 7, was one of the first to be lowered? - Yes.
Just think. Did you see any boat lowered into the water before you got into the water? - No.
You think you were the first to get into the water? - I know we were the first on our side.
I am talking of the starboard side; and you were the first to get into the water on the starboard side? - Yes.
So that there would be seven others, I think, on that starboard side? - Yes.
Did you see each of them launched? - No; I could not see afterwards very well from where I was.
Why not? - We were all messing about with the other boats being lowered, and looking out for our own boat. We were not taking any notice of the others.
But you saw some of the others lowered, at any rate? - I saw them all after they were launched.
You cannot tell us, I suppose, about the order of the others being lowered? - No, I can say nothing about that.
Can you give us any idea of about how long it was from the time when your boat got to the water before the other boats got to the water - the last of the others on the starboard side? - I could not say, they were not long; they were all down by the time we pulled away from the ship. We kept alongside and kept to our orders.
Then you told us you pulled away; you thought the ship was settling down? - Yes.
Can you give me any sort of idea how long it was from the time you pulled away to the time when the ship disappeared? - Well, about one and a half hours I expect. I had got no time; that is just a rough guess.
Did you see signs of the "Titanic" settling down when you left her side? - Well, very little. I did not notice anything in the boats alongside the ship.
And you pulled away from her side because you saw these other boats were pulling away? - Yes.
And how far off did you go? - We only just went a little way at first, just kept so that we could speak to them on board the ship in case we were wanted.
Did anybody speak to you from the deck? - No.
That would be some little distance off. Give me an idea how far off it would be? - About 20 yards or something like that, and we stopped there.
And when you were in that position, some 20 yards from the ship, so that you could be hailed from the deck, did you see any signs of her settling down then? - Yes, you could notice her going away by the head.
Was that gradual or sudden? - No, very slow.
This was when you were about 20 yards off? - Yes.
Were the other boats on the starboard side about the same distance off, or further off? - Further off.
Do you mean you think you were the nearest? - At that time.
Then when was it that you made a move again? - The forecastle-head was getting close down to the water then.
And what did you do then with your boat? - Pulled away clear.
Now can you give me any idea about how long that was before she disappeared? - I could not say that; not more than about half an hour I should say.
And how far from the ship did you pull away then? - Oh, a long way. We met with the Third Officer, and he moored his boat alongside of ours all night.
What is the Third Officer's name? - Mr. Pitman.
And you met Pitman in his boat? - Yes.
And he moored his boat alongside of yours? - Yes, alongside of ours all night.
Lashed together, I think? - Yes.
Just tell us shortly what you yourself saw then. What did you see that happened to the "Titanic" before she went down and as she went down? - We stopped there and watched her gradually sink away. We could see the people about on the deck before the lights went out. As she went away by the head so the lights went out, and we heard some explosions as she was going down. But all the lights went out and we could only see a black object in front of us.
Was it light enough to see if her stern was up in the air? - Yes. I saw the stern straight up in the air.
At that time were the lights still burning or had they gone out? - No. As the stern stood up in the air so all the lights went out.
Can you tell us at all how long you think the stern was like that? - Not more than a few moments.
And then when the stern sank did she sink slowly or all at once? - She went down pretty fast.
Now you say you heard some explosions? - Yes.
Did you hear more than one? - Yes; I heard two or three.
Were the explosions close together or at intervals? - Close after one another.
And how near was that to the disappearance - to the end? - Not long.
Was it before you saw the stern up in the air? - No, just as the stern went up in the air.
Were the lights burning when you heard the explosion? - Some on the afterend.
Did you hear any noise apart from the explosion? - Some people have spoken of the noise of the machinery? - I never heard nothing.
It is suggested that the heavy machinery fell. Now just come back to your boat for a minute. Did your boat pick up anybody out of the sea? - No, not one.
So that you landed the same number of people into the "Carpathia" as got into the boat at the rail level? - Well, we took two or three out of Mr. Pitman's boat.
That is the Third Officer? - Yes.
Because you had got more room than he had, I suppose? - Yes, to make it more even.
Did he remain in command of your boat the whole time till you got to the "Carpathia"? - Yes.
And how many of you were rowing? - Me and Hogg was doing most of the work; the rest were trying to pull. I was pulling from the time I went in the boat to the time we got alongside the "Carpathia."

Page 20

What time did you get alongside the "Carpathia"? - It must have been somewhere about 7 or 8 in the morning or getting on that way.
I went in the boat to the time we got alongside the "Carpathia."(The Commissioner.) What time was it? - 7 or 8 in the morning.
(The Solicitor-General.) I will just ask you this: Had you seen any ice after the accident and before your boat was launched? - No.

(The Solicitor-General.) I meant really in the water. (To the Witness.) Did you see any icebergs when you were in your boat? - When it became daylight.
(The Commissioner.) What time did it become daylight? - That I could not say; there was nobody had any time.
Would it be about half-past five? - I should say it would be about that time.
When it became daylight you saw some icebergs, do you say? - Yes.
(The Solicitor-General.) Did you see many of them? - Yes, a lot, all around us.
Except for drifting, how far were you from where the boat sank? - We could not tell. We were drifting along with the wreckage. We could not tell where the boat went down; when it came daylight we had no idea; we had been drifting all night.
And had the wreckage been drifting with you alongside? - Yes, I expect so.

Examined by Sir ROBERT FINLAY.

You say that when you looked over the side the ship was stopped? - Yes.
Can you tell us when it was that you looked over the side? - Just after the accident, just after she struck; I rushed right up from below. I got out of my bed and went on deck.
Only one other question. Did you try to find any people to pick up? - Yes. There were only two to do any pulling; we could not get the boat about.
You did your best? - Yes; we done our very best.

Examined by Mr. SCANLAN.

While you were on the look-out, were you given glasses? - No, we never had any glasses.
Had any glasses been supplied from the commencement of the voyage? - No.
When you have been on other liners, has it been usual to provide the look-out man with glasses? - Well, we had them in the "Oceanic." I was on the look-out once there.
Is the "Oceanic" the only other large liner you have been on? - Yes.
So far as you know it is the practice to supply glasses? - I can say nothing about that, because I could not say.
Did you ask for them? - Yes.
Whom did you ask? - My mate went and asked. I do not know who he asked - I did not ask.
(Chairman.) You did not ask? - No, I did not ask.
(Mr. Scanlan.) You did not ask yourself? - No.
Do you derive much help from the glasses when you are on the look-out? - Yes, they are very useful.
I think you said there was no look-out man forward? [No answer.]
(The Commissioner.) Will you tell me this: How often have you used glasses? - Well, we had them on the "Oceanic"; we used them there all the time.
How often have you used them in your life? - Well, I have used several glasses, not on the look-out.
But I am talking of on the look-out. How often in your life have you used glasses on the look-out? - Only on the "Oceanic."
How often did you use them there? - Oh! very often.
Did you see anyone else using them? - Yes, my mate.
How many had you? - Only one pair.
And where were they kept? - In a little bag on a little box in the crow's-nest.
Was there a box or bag on the "Titanic" for these glasses? - There was a box there.
But nothing in it? - No, nothing in it.
(Mr. Scanlan.) Did you look in the box on the occasion of your first watch to find out if there were glasses there? - Yes.
So that you are quite certain that from the commencement of the voyage you were not supplied with glasses? - Yes, we never had any glasses.
Tell me this: Is it usual on liners to have a look-out man stationed forward of the crow's-nest? - Well, it is not all big liners that have lookout men.
(The Commissioner.) How many liners have you been on? - Only the "Titanic" and the "Oceanic."
Have you ever been working on any other liners? - No, only sailing ships.
Then your knowledge is confined to these two vessels? - That is right.
How many voyages have you made on the "Oceanic"? - Seven or eight.
And half a one on this? - Yes.
(Mr. Scanlan.) Was the "Titanic" provided with a flashlight? - What do you mean?
Was there any electric light - any searchlight? - I never saw any. I could not say that.
(The Commissioner.) Was there one on the "Oceanic"? - I never saw any. I do not think so.
(Mr. Scanlan.) At the time you were taken on board the "Carpathia," was your boat full? - Well, nearly full.
Could you even then have accommodated a few more? - Very few.
You stated in answer to the Solicitor-General, that when your watch was finished, your watch finishing, I think at 10, you passed on to the two men who succeeded you the information you had got? - Yes, that was my orders from the bridge.
That ice was ahead? - Yes.

(Mr. Scanlan.) You had a warning about ice? - Yes, and I passed the word along.
Is it usual for a man on the look-out - is it part of his duty to pass the word along in these circumstances? - Yes.
Now, did the two watchmen whom you and your mate replace, give you any word? - No, they had had no message then.
So that the first message of ice was not communicated until half-past time? - No, it could not have been.
Now, with regard to the boat drill, did you personally take part in it at Southampton? - Yes.
What boat did you go to when the order was given for boat drill? - Well, there was only two got ready, and so many told off for each.
Were you assisting in lowering one of the two lifeboats that were actually let down into the water at Southampton? - Yes, the two forward ones.
How many assisted at each boat? - Nine sailors and a quartermaster and an officer.
How many? - About eleven, I think.
Eleven seamen? - Yes, something like that; a quartermaster, an officer, and seven or eight seamen.

Page 21

Did any firemen assist in the lowering of the boats at the trial? - At Southampton?
Yes. - No.
Did any stewards assist at the lowering of the boats? - No, only sailors.
You have told us that in the list which was set up in the forecastle you were assigned to this boat, No. 7. Who were the others set down for this boat? - Weller. I know Weller was there; who else I could not say.
At this boat which you assisted in lowering in Southampton, you say eleven seamen were engaged in the lowering? - Not in the lowering; two men would lower away the boat.
How were the eleven engaged? - They were the crew of the boat.
What was the crew of the boat's work? - To pull and practice - pulling round the harbour and back.
How many were engaged in pulling her round the harbour? - I suppose there were six or seven pulling.
And were these six or seven able seamen? - Yes.
What I want to make clear is, amongst the six or seven you had not any firemen? - No.
Or stewards? - No, all able seamen.
Now, so far as the firemen and stewards were concerned, did they at Southampton or anywhere else get any practice or any training either in lowering boats or rowing them? - I never saw them.
(The Commissioner.) You saw none? - No.
(Mr. Scanlan.) Can you tell the Court how many firemen were expected to assist you as part of the crew of No. 7? - No, I could not say; I never saw their list. Their list is down in a different place from mine.
Is the list which is exhibited in your cabin merely a list of the deckhands? - Of the deckhands.
And on that list is it the case that there was no other name except yours and Weller's? - I think there was a quartermaster; I am not sure. We only go and look for our own name when we are on a job like that.
Then a third man came on? - Yes.
Hogg? - Yes.
Are you quite sure that Hogg's name was not on this list? - I am not sure.
So that you do not know whether No. 7 was Hogg's boat or whether he belonged to some other? - I could not say that.
Is it not a usual thing when there is boat practice to call to the boat deck all the men who are expected in an emergency to go with that boat? - Yes. Once on the trip. Once going out and once coming home - twice on the trip.
Had this been done on this trip? - No; it is generally done on the Sunday, but it was not done on that day. There was a strong wind.
(The Commissioner.) This was the first Sunday you were out? - Yes.
Had it been done on that day? - No. It was blowing hard that day; there was a strong wind that day; that was the reason why it was not done.
(The Commissioner.) A strong wind on what day? - On the Sunday.
What Sunday? - On the day of the accident; a strong breeze blowing all that day.
I thought the sea was quite smooth? - So it was when the accident happened.
Then the wind had gone down? - Yes, it had gone down as the sun set.
(Mr. Scanlan.) What time did the wind abate on the Sunday? - It went down as the sun began to go away.
And you say that that was the reason you had no boat practice. Who told you so? - Well, that is the only thing we knew.

(After a short Adjournment.)

Mr. Quillium: Will your Lordship allow me to make an application on behalf of the National Union of Stewards. They had over 200 members on board the "Titanic," and they have over 15,000 stewards, members of their union, in the British Isles, and they am greatly concerned that they should be represented here, as there are many points which they wish to bring out which concern the stewards on these boats?

The Commissioner: Very well. Be moderate in the questions which you ask.

(Mr. Scanlan.) I have a few more questions, my Lord. (To the Witness.) I understand there were three of you seamen in the lifeboat No. 7? - Yes, Sir.
Besides you three was there any fireman? - No.
Had you any assistance in the manning of that boat besides the three of you? - There were two gentlemen there who helped as well as they could.
They were passengers who by chance knew something about handling a boat, and they gave you assistance? - They did not know much about it, Sir.
To handle a lifeboat in a rough sea, in an ordinary sea, how many men would you require? - We would want six at the least, Sir.
Six trained men? - Oh, yes, we would want six men who understand the boat.
And you had only three? - That is all, Sir.
The Commissioner: It was similar on this occasion.
Mr. Scanlan: Yes, Sir, it was similar on this occasion.
(The Commissioner.) I suppose when you did get on board this lifeboat, in point of fact the men you had with you were able to manage it? - There were only three.
Was it swamped? - No, Sir, it was not swamped.
(Mr. Scanlan.) I think you said you were tired out when you were picked up? - I was myself.
(The Commissioner.) What do you say? - He asked me if I was tired when I was picked up, and I said I was.
You were on the boat for something like eight hours, were you not? - About seven hours.
Had you anything to eat? - No.
Had you anything to drink? - No, I had nothing, Sir.
(Mr. Scanlan.) When you speak of six men being required do you mean seamen, or would that allow for some of the men being stokers? - It does not matter who it is, so long as they understand how to handle a boat.
Now to your knowledge, had any of the men in the ship's complement knowledge of manning boats except the seamen, the A.B.'s, and the deckhands?
The Commissioner: But, Mr. Scanlan, you must be a little reasonable. Did he know all the other men? He cannot answer that question.
(Mr. Scanlan.) Very well, my Lord. (To the Witness.) Did you know in point of fact of your own knowledge how many seamen were on board? - No.
The Commissioner: It is no use asking him that question, because if he said he did I should not believe him.
(Mr. Scanlan.) Were the collapsible boats tested at all? - I could not tell you that, Sir.
You did not see it? - No.
From what part of the ship did the passengers come who were on your boat? - I would have a hard job to say; they were on deck when I got there.
Did you have instructions not to allow men on board? - Yes.
(The Commissioner.) Men as distinguished from women?
Mr. Scanlan: Yes, male passengers.
The Witness: Yes.
Had the lifeboat a compass? - No, Sir, not on board.
Should a lifeboat have a compass? - I do not think it is much use in an open sea like that. A compass is no good to anyone, it is all right if you see the land and know where you are.
The Commissioner: Would you ask him the question, do lifeboats carry compasses as a rule?

Page 22

(Mr. Scanlan.) Yes, my Lord. (To the Witness.) Do lifeboats as a rule carry compasses? - There is one on board for every boat.
Where is it kept on board? - I do not know where it is kept on the big ship - on the "Titanic."
Whose duty is it to put on board the lifeboats all that is required in the way of provisions and appliances? - That is done in port; I could not say.
Is it done in port before the commencement of the voyage? - Yes.
The Commissioner: Do they put water on board before the commencement of the voyage?
(Mr. Scanlan.) Do they put water in the boat? - Yes, there is water in every boat.
(The Commissioner.) And how often is it changed; ever? - I could not say.
But have you known it ever changed? - I have never seen it.
And what food do they put on board? - A box of biscuits.
Is the box of biscuits kept on board the lifeboats while they are swung on the deck as we see them in this model? Has every lifeboat a box of biscuits? - I think so, Sir.
Or is a box of biscuits put on board when the lifeboat is being lowered into the water? - I do not know; I have never seen any on board; I could not say.
Have you ever seen any on board any lifeboat? - No, Sir.
(Mr. Scanlan.) There were not any of these things in yours - neither water nor biscuits? - Yes, there was water; but as to biscuits, I cannot say. I do not think anyone looked.
(Mr. Lewis.) There is one question I should like to ask first with regard to the speed. Could you say what speed you were going at? - No.
The Commissioner: He does not know anything of that kind.
(Mr. Lewis.) I am merely asking the Witness whether he noticed any appreciable difference in the speed on the Sunday, the day of the accident, and on the Saturday; could you say? - I could not say anything about that.
You did not see any difference? - No.
With regard to glasses, did you make any personal application to anyone? - My mate did, Sir.
The Commissioner: He says his mate told him that he did.
The Witness: Yes.
(Mr. Lewis.) Which one? - Symons.
Could you tell how long the boat you were in took to prepare and lower? - Half an hour at the most, I should think.
Half an hour at the most? - Yes, we were all in a hurry; I could hardly judge the time.
Have you a knowledge of the ship itself, of the different parts; the first-class, the second-class, and the third-class quarters? - No, I could not say much about that, because I was not over the ship much.
You could not express an opinion whether it was difficult for the third-class passengers to reach the deck where the boat was? - There were some, so I heard.
You could not say how difficult it would be to reach it? - No.
Mr. Searle: I do not know if any of us are allowed to put any questions.
The Commissioner: What do you mean by "any of us"? I do not know whom you represent.
Mr. Searle: I understood we had to get permission from you.
The Commissioner: Who are you?
Mr. Searle: I represent persons who are some of the deceased passengers' relatives, relatives of waiters and different persons.
The Commissioner: What is it you want to ask?
Mr. Searle: One or two questions.
The Commissioner: Will you tell me what it is?
Mr. Searle: I should have liked to have asked him how he got to know that the ship had absolutely stopped.
The Witness: That is a very foolish thing to ask. Any man looking over the side could tell whether the ship was going ahead or stopped.
The Commissioner: Who is it you represent? I do not know.
Mr. Searle: I can give you their names.
The Commissioner: But who are they?
Mr. Searle: Those who have lost relatives, Sir, fathers and husbands.
The Commissioner: Have you made any application previously?
Mr. Searle: Not to you, my Lord. I have only come this morning. I have only just come in.
The Commissioner: I cannot listen to people who have only just come in. I must have some sort of limit to these questions. Will you tell me what it is you want to ask the man?
Mr. Searle: I wanted to ask him how long it was after he came up from below that the ship struck. (To the Witness.) You said when you came up from below the ship had stopped?
The Commissioner: The engines had stopped.
Mr. Searle: That is another thing. He said the ship had stopped.
The Witness: The ship had stopped.
Mr. Quillium: May I ask a question, my Lord.
The Commissioner: What do you want to ask?
Mr. Quillium: Had they any practice with regard to the collapsible boats?
The Commissioner: Oh, yes, that is right enough; you may ask him that.
(Mr. Quillium.) Did you have any practice with regard to the collapsible boat or boats before the "Titanic" sailed? - Not the collapsible boats.
Have you ever had any practice on any liner with regard to collapsible boats? - No.
The Commissioner: He has only been on two, you know.
(Mr. Quillium.) Now with regard to the food on the lifeboats - during the boats drills did the stewards bring the biscuits to the boat? - I never saw it done.

Re-examined by the ATTORNEY-GENERAL.

When you were in the boats did you see any steamer? - Not before the "Carpathia."

The Commissioner: Is there any other question that you want to ask, Sir Robert?

Sir Robert Finlay: No, my Lord.

The Commissioner: Thank you, Jewell; and if you will allow me to say so, I think you have given your evidence very well indeed.

The Witness: Thank you, Sir.

(The Witness withdrew.)

(Joseph Scarrott was called, but did not appear.)

The Commissioner: Mr. Attorney, have you any information from any of these Witnesses as to how long after the forecastle-head went under, the stern went up in the air?

The Attorney-General: We have certain information, my Lord, but it is an estimate of time.

The Commissioner: You mean it is an estimate made by untrained men?

The Attorney-General: Yes, it is a question of minutes.

The Commissioner: Well, minutes or seconds.

The Attorney-General: To express it in minutes is very difficult.

The Commissioner: A man of the kind we had in the box just now talks sometimes about minutes when he means moments.

Page 23

The Attorney-General: That is why I hesitated to answer, my Lord.

The Commissioner: Where is Mr. Scarrott?

The Attorney-General: He has been called, and he has not answered.

The Commissioner: Is there nobody who looks after these Witnesses?

The Attorney-General: Yes, and he was warned he would be called, but he does not seem to have come back.

The Commissioner: There should be somebody whose business it is to keep these men in hand, otherwise they stray about.

JOSEPH SCARROTT, Sworn.

Examined by Mr. BUTLER ASPINALL.

Were you serving as A. B. on the "Titanic" on the occasion of this accident? - Yes.
Was it your watch from 8 to 12 on the Sunday night? - Yes.
What were your duties during that watch? - To stand by for a call in case I was wanted for anything whatever.
Shortly before the ship struck the iceberg did you hear the bell strike in the crow's-nest? - Yes.
What did you hear? - Three bells.
Do you know what time that was? - Not to be exact I do not, but it was round about half-past eleven.
Shortly after that did you feel anything? - Yes.
What did you feel? - Well, I did not feel any direct impact, but it seemed as if the ship shook in the same manner as if the engines had been suddenly reversed to full speed astern, just the same sort of vibration, enough to wake anybody up if they were asleep.
Did you feel anything besides that? - No.
Did you feel the ship strike anything? - No, not directly.
"Not directly," you say? - Not as if she hit anything straight on - just a trembling of the ship.
How soon did you feel this vibration after you heard the three strikes on the gong? - As I did not take much notice of the three strikes on the gong, I could hardly recollect the time; but I should think it was - well, we will say about five or eight minutes; it seemed to me about that time.
Where were you at the time? - Just about the forecastle-head.
Did you remain there? - No.
Where did you go? - I rushed down to tell my mate that was in the bath room just at the bottom of the ladder. He asked me to give him a call if anything was doing.
What did you do after that? - Rushed on deck with the remainder of those that were in the forecastle. The shock caused everybody to turn out, and we came on deck to see what was the cause of the vibration.
Did the boatswain give any orders to the hands? - Yes.
What was his order? - "All hands on deck; turn out the boats and take the covers off and place the covers amidships."
When you got on deck did you see anything; did you see any ice or iceberg? - Oh, yes, when we first came up.
Tell me what you saw. - When we came up, that was before the boatswain's call, we saw a large quantity of ice on the starboard side on the forewell deck, and I went and looked over the rail there and I saw an iceberg that I took it we had struck. It would be abaft the beam then - abaft the starboard beam.
Was it close to? - No, it seemed the ship was acting on her helm and we had swung clear of the iceberg.
But how far away from your beam was the iceberg, a ship's length or two ships' length? - Not a ship's length.
You speak of this ship as if answering her helm - as if answering under which helm? - Under the starboard helm - under the port helm.
Get it right? - Under port helm. Her stern was slewing off the iceberg. Her starboard quarter was going off the icebergs, and the starboard bow was going as if to make a circle round it.
The Commissioner: You must be a little more particular about this, and make me understand it.
Mr. Butler Aspinall: I think what he means is that she was acting - correct me if I am wrong.
The Witness: Yes.
She was acting as if under port helm, her head going to starboard? - That is correct.
The Commissioner: The ship's head was going to starboard?
(Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Yes. (To the Witness.) Had your ship headway on at the time - or not do you think? - I cannot say.
You do not know? - No.
The Commissioner: You can tell me this, my colleagues will know this, no doubt. After a collision of this character what is the order generally given to the engines? Is it an order to stop or an order to reverse?
Mr. Butler Aspinall: It is difficult for me to say, my Lord; it depends so much upon the circumstances of each case.
The Commissioner: Then you cannot give a simple answer.
Mr. Butler Aspinall: No, my Lord, I am afraid I cannot. I do not know how they might be wishing to maneuver her.
The Commissioner: With a ship going 21 knots, how soon after an order to stop will the way on the ship stop?
Mr. Butler Aspinall: I should think, if the engines are only stopped and not reversed, a laden ship will carry her way for a very considerable distance.
The Commissioner: Can you tell me what you mean by a very considerable distance?
Mr. Butler Aspinall: I do not think I could give your Lordship any answer to that which would be of value.
The Commissioner: Very well. And, of course, if the engines are ordered to be reversed, then the way upon her is stopped in a much shorter time?
Mr. Butler Aspinall: That is so, and if the ship has run into something that, of course, is also a factor to be taken into consideration.
The Commissioner: That arrests her course?
(Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Yes. (To the Witness.) You have told us that somewhere on your starboard beam, within a ship's length of you, was the iceberg. How high was the iceberg as compared with your vessel? - I should say about as high as the boat deck; it appeared to be that from the position of it.
(The Commissioner.) How high from the water would that be - 90 feet? - I cannot say.
The Attorney-General: I think about 60 feet.
(Mr. Butler Aspinall.) What was the shape of this iceberg? - Well, it struck me at the time that it resembled the Rock of Gibraltar looking at it from Europa Point. It looked very much the same shape as that, only much smaller.
(The Commissioner.) Like a lion couchant? - As you approach Gibraltar - it seemed that shape. The highest point would be on my right, as it appeared to me.
(Mr. Butler Aspinall.) You received the words, "Uncover and turn out the boats"? - Yes.
Now which was your boat? - No. 14.
On which side was she? - The port side.
And was she well aft on the port side? - In the after-section.
Did you go to that boat? - No.
Did you go to any other boat? - I went to 14 boat finally, but not at first.
Not at first? - No, not at the first order.
Which boat did you go to first? - The first boat on the port side - not the emergency boat. The first boat was the first boat to uncover. You understand we started on the port side and got those boats uncovered and cleared and turned them out, falls all ready for lowering, and then worked with the starboard boats. At the time we were working at the starboard boat - I think I was at boat 13 - the chief officer came along and asked me whether it was my right boat. I said, "No, we are all assisting here." He said, "All right, go to your own boat," and then I went to No. 14 boat.

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Then how comes it that you did not go to your own boat in the first instance? - Acting on the boatswain's orders.
(The Commissioner.) Which boat did you go to first - what number? - I think it is four, the first boat abaft the emergency boat on the port side.
Sir Robert Finlay: It would be No. 4.
(Mr. Butler Aspinall.) How many boats did you assist in getting out and down to the water before you went to your own boat? - I think I assisted in getting four out ready for lowering, but not down to the water. I was at my own station then. By the time the order was passed for women and children first, by Mr. Wilde, I assisted to get them all out ready for lowering. I personally helped at four boats.
Was there any difficulty or not in getting them out? - There was in one or two cases, but the difficulty was not great. It merely wanted a kick of the foot just to clear the chock.
That is a small difficulty, if it is a difficulty at all. It has always got to be done? - Yes, you have to watch for that. That is common. That is a thing which is likely to happen at any time.
Apart from the difficulty, if it can be called a difficulty, the boats were got out readily and easily? - Yes.
(The Commissioner.) What is the number of your boat? - Fourteen.
(Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Then, later, having assisted at the other boats, you got to your own boat? - Yes.
Does that boat belong to any particular officer? - Whether it does or not I do not know.
That you do not know? - No.
Who was taking charge of that boat when you got there - was there anybody? - When I got there I put myself in charge as the only sailorman there. I was afterwards relieved by the Fifth Officer, Mr. Lowe.
Later? - Yes.
Yes, we will come to that. Now having got to boat 14, which was your boat, what was done about that? - Directly I got to my boat I jumped in, saw the plug in, and saw my dropping ladder was ready to be worked at a moment's notice; and then Mr. Wilde, the Chief Officer, came along and said, "All right; take the women and children," and we started taking the women and children. There would be 20 women got into the boat, I should say, when some men tried to rush the boats, foreigners they were, because they could not understand the order which I gave them, and I had to use a bit of persuasion. The only thing I could use was the boat's tiller.
(The Commissioner.) When you say that foreigners tried to rush the boat, were they passengers? - By their dress I should say yes, my Lord.
(Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Did the Fifth Officer assist you in this persuasion? - He was not there then.
Did you get these men out of your boat, or prevent them getting in? - Yes, I prevented five getting in. One man jumped in twice and I had to throw him out the third time.
Did you succeed in getting all the women and children that were about into your boat? - Yes, when Mr. Lowe came and took charge he asked me how many were in the boat; I told him as far as I could count there were 54 women and four children, one of those children being a baby in arms. It was a very small baby which came under my notice more than anything, because of the way the mother was looking after it, being a very small child.
(The Commissioner.) How many women did you say? - Fifty-four.
And four children? - Yes.
(Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Were there any other passengers in that boat? - Not passengers; no, Sir.
Who else was in that boat? - Myself, two firemen, and three or four stewards. I will not be certain as regards the exact number of stewards, but there were not more than four.
Two firemen and three or four stewards? - Yes; not more than four.
Was Mr. Lowe, the Fifth Officer, also in the boat? - We were practically full up. I was taking the women in when Mr. Lowe came. There was another officer with him on the boat deck, but I do not know which one that was, and he said to this other officer: "All right, you go in that boat and I will go in this." That would mean No. 16 boat; she was abaft us, the next boat. Mr. Lowe came in our boat. I told him that I had had a bit of trouble through the rushing business, and he said, "All right." He pulled out his revolver and he fired two shots between the ship and the boat's side, and issued a warning to the remainder of the men that were about there. He told them that if there was any more rushing he would use it. When he fired the two shots he fired them into the water. He asked me, "How many got into the boat?" I told him as near as I could count that that was the number, and he said to me, "Do you think the boat will stand it?" I said, "Yes, she is hanging all right." "All right," he said, "Lower away 14."
Was she then lowered to the water? - Yes.
And having been lowered to the water, was she disengaged? - No, she hung up. The forward fall lowered all right, sufficiently far enough that the forepart of the boat was afloat and the forward fall slack. Her after-fall then would be about ten feet - we had about ten feet to go on the after-fall. Our boat was at an angle of pretty well 45 degrees. I called Mr. Lowe's attention to it. He said, "Why don't they lower away aft?" I know the man that was lowering the after-fall, it was McGough. I looked overhead naturally enough, seeing the boat did not come down, and the fall was twisted. It resembled more a cable hawser than a fall, and would not render at all. I called Mr. Lowe's attention to the fact. He said, "What do you think is best to be done?" I said, "I can case it. I will cut one part of the fall, and it will come easy. I have not the least doubt but what she will come away with her releasing gear." He said, "Do not you think the distance rather too much?" I said "No; she might start a plug, but I will look out for that." We dropped her by the releasing gear, and when she was clear I jumped to the plug to see if the impact of the water had started it, but it remained fast. After that we got clear of the ship.
Now you are clear of the ship? - Yes.
Now, having got clear of the ship, what was done with that boat? Where did it go to? - We just rowed clear of the ship. I suppose Mr. Lowe used his discretion to get clear of the suction which was likely to take place, and we saw four other boats then. Sixteen was the nearest boat. She had just got clear a little previous to us.
On which side of the ship? - The port side.
On which side of the "Titanic," I mean? - On the port side.
How many were rowing? - Four.
Do you know who they were - were they seamen? - I can only account for two as regards thei rating. I was pulling the after-oar on the port side of the boat, and on my left was a fireman; but as regards the other two that were further forward on the boat, I cannot say what they were as regards their rating.
(The Commissioner.) I thought you said they were stewards. - I do not know whether those stewards were rowing. There were more than four men in the boat.
Am I right in supposing that in your boat, No. 14, there were yourself, two firemen, three or four stewards, and Lowe? - There is a correction there, my Lord. There was one man in that boat that we had been under the impression - when I say "we," I mean the watch of sailors - that he was a sailorman. That man was not a sailor at all, though acting in the capacity of sailor. That was another man that was in the boat.

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What was he? - A window-cleaner; he was supposed to be in the ship as a window-cleaner.
(Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Who was steering your boat? - Mr. Lowe, the fifth officer.
How far off from the "Titanic" was your boat rowed? - I should judge about 150 yards.
Then did she lie there? - She lay there with the remainder of the other boats - with the four other boats that we saw when we got clear of the ship.
Did you see four other boats there? - Yes.
Did you speak them? - Yes.
And was anything done with the other boats? - Mr. Lowe asked them who was in charge of the boats, what officers were there, and we got a reply from each boat individually to say they had no officer in the boat. He said: "All right consider the whole of you are under my orders; remain with me," and when the ship sank, when there was nothing left of her above the water, he waited, I suppose, about a couple of minutes, not more, and ordered all our boats to row where we last saw the ship to see if we could pick up anybody.
You have gone on a little too fast. You spoke four other boats? - Yes.
And you remained there? - Yes.
Now what was happening as far as you could see, on the "Titanic" while you were lying off; was she sinking by the head, or what? - She was sinking by the head.
You could see that? - Yes.
Was she sinking at first fast or slow? - Very slow it appeared to be.
As time went on did she sink faster? - As the water seemed to get above the bridge she increased her rate of going down.
Going down head first? - Head first.
(The Commissioner.) As the water got above the bridge did you say? - As the water got above the bridge she started to go down faster.
The Commissioner: I should have thought that when the water got to the bridge the boat would go to the bottom at once.
Mr. Butler Aspinall: I should have thought so too.
The Witness: She was right up on end then.
(The Commissioner.) Do you say the water got to the bridge? - Yes, I am judging from what I saw. When the port bow light disappeared she seemed to go faster. That light is seen about level with the bridge, the port bow light.
Is it level with the bridge? Is not the bridge above it? - The bridge would be above it, yes.
Put your finger on the bridge on that model. (The Witness pointed it out.) Do you want me to understand that the fore part of the ship was so deep in the water that the bridge was touching the water? - All this part (pointing on the model) was in the water; you could just see the port bow light. Of course, that would be the other side. This would be the starboard light, here.
The Attorney-General: He said she was standing end-on.
(The Commissioner.) What do you mean by that? - This part of the ship was right up in the air. You could see her propeller right clear, and you could see underneath the keel; you could see part of her keel.
And at the stern she was so much up that you could see the propeller? - Yes.
The Attorney-General: And part of the keel.
(Mr. Butler Aspinall.) You saw the port light disappear? - Yes.
And then after that the ship went? - Yes, she seemed to go with a rush then.
(The Commissioner.) How soon after you saw the bridge level with the water did the ship disappear? - Well, I cannot say as regards the time, but when it got there the ship went with a rush, and you could hear the breaking up of things in the ship, and then followed four explosions. To the best of my recollection that is the number of the explosions.
(Mr. Butler Aspinall.) As soon as the ship went down, what was done with your boat? Did she remain where she was for a little time, or did she row in to where the ship had sunk? - She rowed in in company with the four other boats, under the orders of Mr. Lowe, to see if we could pick up anybody from the wreckage.
The whole five of you row